The Costume Brawl Thread

[Sankt Hallvard]

Originally Posted by Fox Reeveheart

I dunno, i'm not a pvp junkie, but costume brawl was my favorite pvp, now they gave it some wierd degen build and the mes is crap now.

Ok, I was quite certain you were trolling but when you say you are not I'm going to take your word for it.

You have missed the part that illusion of pain only heals 'when it ends'. You can easily reapply it before it ends, denying the narutoboy his heal.

The mesmer is the best 1v1 template in CB, you deal constant dps with max degen. In the case of a sin keep moving and he can't catch you, snare him and move away when he teleports. If he has battle cry advantage wait for him to get up close and tease his palm strike. Failing to do that hit him with clumsiness right after palm strike. Learn to play the bar and I'm sure you'll see how good it really is.

[Greedy Gus]

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Actually you get a decent boost from the center shrine as well. But I agree with you, I would go for BC shrine if people asked my opinion. (they don't)

You get a single extra pip of morale from the center shrine. It isn't worth anything, because whoever wins through fighting can mop up morale shrines easily.

Originally Posted by Jessyi

Costume brawl makes me cry. Every single team I've been on this week has been loaded with failures except for one match where placebo was playing an assassin on our team. Every asshole in the entire universe wants to cap and camp centre, or cap useless junk. Out of the ~400 people I've played with so far, about 3 knew to go battle cry first. I forget who it was who said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing 800 million times and expecting a different result, but they should tell it to these failfags because DAMN. Seriously, how can people keep doing the same shitty strategy and then whine about losing? Furthermore, since 99.9% of all teams are doing EXACTLY the same stupid shit, you know how the enemy is ALWAYS going to move! I only WISH it were possible to predict movement that accurately in GvG.

Yeah I don't understand what most people are thinking. Although I just checked wiki, and it gives the crap strategies that so many people are also spamming in-game (cap center, split up and some people cap useless stuff), so maybe they're reading that.

[Jessyi]

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Actually you get a decent boost from the center shrine as well. But I agree with you, I would go for BC shrine if people asked my opinion. (they don't)

Uh, well, you see, the "To the pain" buff (if you want to call it that) is applied to both teams, regardless of who has the shrine capped. So you see, for the purpose of our discussion (analyzing tactics to optimize your strategy and increase your chances of winning) the center shrine effect is negligible, and again, the best, nay the only strategy that should be used is the cap-bc-shrine-then-center technique.

I declare this argument over and myself the winner (again).

[Gli]

Either very few people are playing at the moment, ANet's randomness sucks, or I just have incredibly bad luck right now. I just logged on to CB a bit, and 3 out of 4 matches so far I started against the exact same 3A/2Mo team. Almost won the last one though.

[Martin Alvito]

Originally Posted by Jessyi

Please explain what part of my infallible logic is confusing.

Splitting the three shrine map invites disaster. If you do anything other than rush center, I attack your larger split with all five, win that engagement, time kill your split, and repeat until the match ends. By the time all five of you are alive, you're down 10 or more.

You could send all five to battle cry, but then you've given away two shrines for the price of one. Movement isn't very important on that map. It's just a slugfest. Increasing your swing speed is nice but not decisive.

This is why people rush the center of that map. You could make an argument for doing something else if you have a low damage team that needs to split, but with a conventional team that strings (lots of A, Mo, E in it) rushing center just wins matches.

[SluggyTheZealot]

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Splitting the three shrine map invites disaster. If you do anything other than rush center, I attack your larger split with all five, win that engagement, time kill your split, and repeat until the match ends. By the time all five of you are alive, you're down 10 or more.

You could send all five to battle cry, but then you've given away two shrines for the price of one. Movement isn't very important on that map. It's just a slugfest. Increasing your swing speed is nice but not decisive.

This is why people rush the center of that map. You could make an argument for doing something else if you have a low damage team that needs to split, but with a conventional team that strings (lots of A, Mo, E in it) rushing center just wins matches.

Dude.......no. Nothing is being said about splitting on this map. It's take battle cry first, and then go crush center. Also, the center team does not get energy shrine without weakening mid. IMS does matter because it is used to close gaps on kiters. I have no words to describe how you say IAS isn't decisive The point he is making is that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to be gained by going center first other than 1 pip of extra morale for 20 seconds. That is useless.

[Xenex Xclame]

The Reason that you go middle with your whole team on that map is because if you went with your Full team there, chances are the opposing team didnt go with a full team.

You go middle you wipe their team and by the time the first battle is over you have 7 or 8 points,for some weird reason when a team has the middle shrine people on the opposing team lose all their brain and rush into middle one by one like chickens without heads, while your team of 3+ is killing them each time they come.

The other reason for going middle and more importantly stay near middle is because of how the map is, if you stay middle you have a good chance of catching someone running from one end of the map to the other and if you have anything that can slow them down,like...a sin,mes,ele or ranger you just scored another free point.

You dont take middle because it gives you the points you take it because it makes scoring point by killing much much easier.If your team is confident of themselfs or you have good classes in your group or the opponents suck,you can even take the left shrine and then just camp near the bridge with snarers for easy win.

[worstnameevar]

Both teams mobbing the center is like playing russian roulette: you don't know what you get till you either win or lose. It's completely based on the abilities(speed, acuracy, timing, etc.) of the players or lackthereof. If you know your team isn't the best, try splitting 3-2. Most of the time the other team has gone 5-0 and will not bother you until they've capped the middle shrine. If and when your team merges(you can easily go from the energy shrine to the home base teleporter and bc team goes back to where they started at the teleporter's drop point), pick off any of the other team that engages you first. This tactic requires calling of targets, a single group mindset, and a half decent profession lineup. Strategy is based on being the blue team.

[garethporlest18]

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Splitting the three shrine map invites disaster. If you do anything other than rush center, I attack your larger split with all five, win that engagement, time kill your split, and repeat until the match ends. By the time all five of you are alive, you're down 10 or more.

You could send all five to battle cry, but then you've given away two shrines for the price of one. Movement isn't very important on that map. It's just a slugfest. Increasing your swing speed is nice but not decisive.

This is why people rush the center of that map. You could make an argument for doing something else if you have a low damage team that needs to split, but with a conventional team that strings (lots of A, Mo, E in it) rushing center just wins matches.

Depending on your party, going to BC first usually works well. Because then you can cap center with a team that might not have been able to do it before. Because sins would be harder to interrupt when their trampling activates 15% faster. Regardless, I've won both ways. BC has helped me win that map and skipping BC works sometimes too. I rather hit it first though. I don't care if they get two right away, because if we can't beat them with BC, then we can't beat them at all. If we can, then we got center and BC. I don't face smart players most of the time just like I rarely get smart players on my team so it usually works out.

But I'd never split on that map.

[Jessyi]

Sluggy pretty much said what I would have said to Martin. Godly kiting ability is godly. Plus, the buffs to swing speed and skill recharge are like having an extra person on your team. No matter which way you slice it, it's just better to have bc shrine. Now just to make myself understood here, I understand that if you've got a decent team that follows calls and makes kills that you don't need the bc shrine for it's movement ability like you need on the larger maps. HOWEVER, one of the first things I learned years ago when I started this whole pvp thing is that you don't play assuming that your enemy is of lesser or equal skill. If you want to WIN and WIN OFTEN, the correct attitude is to assume your enemy will always be flawlessly prepared. Don't give them an inch, take every precaution you can, take every advantage available.

N'est-ce pas?

Originally Posted by Xenex Xclame

The Reason that you go middle with your whole team on that map is because if you went with your Full team there, chances are the opposing team didnt go with a full team.

etc...

Chances are the enemy team didn't split, actually. Honestly, 4/5 times every team goes all 5 center in my experience. In my experience I've also seen exactly what you said about people trickling one by one into the enemy's full team after you wipe them, but like I've said before there's a big difference between winning because you're good and winning because your enemy is terriawful.

You are correct about how you want to position yourself on the map. After the wipe, you want to move your group midway between the center and bc shrine so you can kill them no matter which way they move. That's perfectly compatible with my strategy and it's good play in general. It sounds to me like your argument for taking the center first is to get good positioning, but I see absolutely no reason why you can't do just that after getting the bc shrine and killing the enemy. It'll just be a minute later instead of at the start of the map, and in the grand scheme of things, that one minute makes no difference. It's like this bro: if you can't kill them 5 on 5 WITH the battle cry shrine, then you really didn't have a chance without it, did you? It's just good play to get it first. Seriously. I don't know what there is to debate here really.

[HawkofStorms]

I really wish bad players would stop giving bad advice on the wiki article and other guides for this thing. After a 12 run streak, I get blamed for the loss. Why?... because I didn't mob center and was ignoring player's bad advice. He insisted we lost because they got beat 5v4 at the center shrine. However... it was 4v4 at the center shrine and he didn't notice.




I just wish people wouldn't blame people for losing when it is clearly not their fault. We lost that game because there were 3 sins who were actually intelligently using malice. Not because I actually used the correct game strategy.

[Xenex Xclame]

Originally Posted by Jessyi

If you want to WIN and WIN OFTEN, the correct attitude is to assume your enemy will always be flawlessly prepared. Don't give them an inch, take every precaution you can, take every advantage available.

We'll your right,but the problem I seen many times is that when our team doesn't get middle at start, our team suffer from the headless chicken syndrome,for no apperant reason.That map is just weird,its make people do stupid stuff.


@Hawk,reply at comment befor the 3 sins on opponent part.We'll it is kinda of your fault, you made your team be in a 4v5 disadvantage,I mean if the group splits 4/1 and 4 gets wiped at middle which they probably will, you capping after capping that one shrine alone will most likely die in a 3v1 when you go cap the other shrine,so there is not much you could do.

IMO its better to just go with the mob on that map if there isnt a realy split.

Now on the Sin part,well it sound like it wouldnt have matter anyways,probably nothing you could have done even if you did stay with them except possibly make the match drag on.

I already said it Anet Delete the sins.

PS why not reward both sides, it kinda sucks when a match last a long time just to lose cause someone went kamakazie,why not give the losing team 1 or 2 ToT if they get at least 9 points.I mean its gonna be quite hard for the losing team to get 9 points of people leech so, there wouldnt be incentive for leeching.

[HawkofStorms]

No Xenex, you are misreading. It was 4v4 at center. It was 1v1 at battle (me being the one). There was no disadvantage at center. My team got wiped at center 4v4, I beat the guy at battle, he blames me because it was "5v4" when it wasn't. That's why his entire argument was so fail.

[Xenex Xclame]

Ow yeah sorry, i did misread im very sorry.

[The Black Mumba]

Your fault in any case; if you followed your team, it could have been a 5v4 at the center and probably the other team would have been wiped. In the Norn map the best strategies are 5-0 (rush the center) or 3/2 (cap bc and energy, regroup and rape the center).

[Feathermoore Rep]

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

No Xenex, you are misreading. It was 4v4 at center. It was 1v1 at battle (me being the one). There was no disadvantage at center. My team got wiped at center 4v4, I beat the guy at battle, he blames me because it was "5v4" when it wasn't. That's why his entire argument was so fail.

Well if the guy was already at battle, and you split from your team, technically you did sorta cost your team the win. If they guy ran to face you at BC, while the rest of your teams 4v4'd in center, then no.

Always take the advantage in numbers and wipe the other team.

[HawkofStorms]

No... no it isn't. The point of CB is to run away when outnumbered or the tide of battle is losing. Not mob up. The smart thing for my 4 teammates to do would have been to go to the unguarded energy shrine while their 4 hit center. Then, with all the shrine bonuses, my 4 and me merge back together and then beat up the other team at center 5v4. Splitting is not a bad strategy. You just have to be patient enough to know when to team back up.

Plus, it wasn't exactly a blow out. The match ended 19 to 20. And was "all my fault" that they couldn't handle their own weight and didn't start to back away when they started losing.

Edit: And yes, this was at the very start of the match when I was already on the move to BC. Not when we were already at center.

[Martin Alvito]

Originally Posted by SluggyTheZealot

Dude.......no. Nothing is being said about splitting on this map. It's take battle cry first, and then go crush center. Also, the center team does not get energy shrine without weakening mid.

But all of you are at battle cry...3-2 in response, cap both, back off center, meet you in range of center but not squarely on it. Simple.

Originally Posted by SluggyTheZealot

IMS does matter because it is used to close gaps on kiters.

A) sins should have saved teleport B) you should have attacked targets in sufficient force to kill them before they could kite

Originally Posted by SluggyTheZealot

I have no words to describe how you say IAS isn't decisive

It isn't. Good play that prevents sins from KDing you is decisive. Does attacking faster make the sins' attack skills recharge faster? IAS has very little impact on your damage output. If you're relying on IAS to race another sin to Trampling...you really should play better.

Originally Posted by SluggyTheZealot

The point he is making is that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to be gained by going center first other than 1 pip of extra morale for 20 seconds. That is useless.

Unless the engagement is a draw.

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

No... no it isn't. The point of CB is to run away when outnumbered or the tide of battle is losing. Not mob up.

This is just wrong. The point of CB on the maps with more shrines is to force a positioning fail and exploit it. Usually this is done by cutting off one of their splits from the rest of their team and hammering it.

The point of the 5v5 map is to win a slugfest and exploit time kills after that.

[Jessyi]

@Martin

Assuming you actually have a team that's coordinated enough to do what you say (not including sync teams since that's outside the scope of this discussion), so what if you cap both shrines while we cap bc first? So now you got energy shrine (totally useless) and a +2 morale advantage (still very useless) - neither of which will help you score kills. This is assuming such a thing were even practical. In order to see what my team is doing at the start, you've got to go out the teleporter anyways. If you want to split to the energy shrine, cap it and run back, your split has to run twice as far as we do since we just run to bc then centre, while you're going center - energy - then back. So if everything went to plan, we're going to run to the center with our run buff, kill your 3 man split, run down stragglers, then farm your teleporter.

No, IAS does not make skills recharge faster. The "skills recharge faster" buff makes skills recharge faster (also part of bc shrine, also made of pure awesome and win). Yes, good play is always more decisive than mediocre players with the bc shrine. Did you miss the part about how you assume your enemy is of equal or greater skill to you, or are you just ignoring it so you can keep toeing this line? BC is an advantage - take it.

If engagement at the center is a draw, how can +1 morale be an advantage when neither team manages to cap the shrine? Of course, I realize it won't actually be a draw. One team will always die to the other, or the shrine will be capped because people are outside the range, etc, but uh...again the point stands that if you are evenly matched at the center, capping the bc shrine would tip the battle in your favor (see above).

Yes, BC shrine is even more ridiculously overpowered on the large maps for it's permanent party wide speed buff, but that doesn't make it any less superfantastic on the 3 shrine map.

[Sankt Hallvard]

Originally Posted by Jessyi

Uh, well, you see, the "To the pain" buff (if you want to call it that) is applied to both teams, regardless of who has the shrine capped.
...
I declare this argument over and myself the winner (again).

Yeah, just checked on wiki. "to the pain" seems to affect all nearby creatures. Skillz rank 5 and I didn't know this, live and learn.

No need to make yourself sound like a smug ass just because you are right about something. Arguments speak for themselves.